On Saturday 6 June, ALIAS, the cultural supplement of the daily newspaper il manifesto, devoted a page to “Kontakthof – Echoes of ’78”, the new version of the original “Kontakthof” by Pina Bausch, directed by the Australian dancer, choreographer and filmmaker Meryl Tankard (read review here). I interviewed Salomon Bausch, Pina Bausch Foundation’s director, and Tankard via Zoom to write that article. Josephine Ann Endicott, who danced in the “Kontakthof” première in ’78 and now in “Kontakthof – Echoes of ’78”, responded to my questions in writing, and I quoted her in the article. With il manifesto’s permission, I am publishing here parts of the extensive interview that were not included in Alias due to space constraints. 

Endicott danced in many of Bausch’s pieces. She played the lead role of Anna I in the Brecht–Weill double bill “The Seven Deadly Sins” in 1976, appeared in “Kontakthof”, “Arien”, “Walzer”… She was unforgettable as the Chosen One in “The Rite of Spring”, a seminal ballet from the Bausch repertoire that has already been restaged with the Ballet Company of Teatro dell’Opera di Roma and will be performed for the first time with the Ballet Company of Teatro alla Scala in November.

After taking a break from Tanztheater Wuppertal in 1987, Endicott returned to the company in 1994 and began working increasingly as a rehearsal director, ensuring that the pieces were passed on to the next generation. Her restagings include “Kontakthof”, “Kontakthof with Ladies and Gentlemen over 65” with Beatrice Libonati (1999/2000), “Kontakthof with Teenagers over 14” with Bénédicte Billiet (2009/2010) and “The Rite of Spring”.

“Kontakthof – Echoes of ’78” was performed for the last time at the Lugano Dance Project. Endicott’s interview takes us behind the scenes of “Kontakthof”, one of the most iconic and versatile pieces in Bausch’s repertoire, and Tankard’s version of that.

Mrs. Endicott, when did you last perform the original “Kontakthof” and what feelings did the process of re-embodying a piece so closely linked to your life evoke?

At present, I feel as though I never stopped dancing or teaching Kontakthof. Kontakthof simply won’t let me go free. I don’t really experience it as “re-embodying” something, or someone else. I am only embodying myself — and this is exactly what I learned through all my decades of working with Pina. She taught us that being yourself is the one and only way to go on stage. You take yourself with you.

Kontakthof is very closely linked to me. In fact, it has become part of me. The piece lives inside my body, my memories, my way of being on stage and with other people. Returning to it does not feel like going back into the past, but continuing an ongoing conversation with myself, with the others, and with Pina. Now, with ageing, it feels grounded.

Do you have any particularly vivid memories of the rehearsals and the production in 1978?

It is a very long time ago. I hope you are aware of that. I was 28 then and now I am 76 years old. What I remember most vividly is how much I loved everything Pina Bausch asked us to do. She was interested in human beings — that is what it was all about. The rehearsals were not about pretending. They were about revealing yourself.

Many things in Kontakthof felt very natural to me. Presenting yourself. The ritual of entering a room. Walking in high heels — which I have always loved because you immediately feel a little taller, a little more powerful. Not everybody walks well in heels, but I can. Even now, I still wear them. It is more difficult today, of course, but I still want to look good. I love beautiful dresses and elegance.

I remember the atmosphere of the rehearsal room very clearly — the music, the songs, the incredible set Rolf Borzik designed, the smoky cabaret feeling mixed with loneliness and desire. The themes of the piece were instantly familiar to all of us because they were about real human behaviour: wanting to be loved, wanting to be admired, feeling insecure, flirting, pretending, performing.

Pina discovered many different facets in me. One moment I could be naïve, then seductive, then a diva, then playful or cute. She was able to see all these personalities inside one person. And I was completely open to giving her everything. That trust was very important.

There were moments in Kontakthof that became very important for me — the “Awah” scene, the “Liebling” scene, and especially that very long scene of singing that slowly turns into crying and loneliness. I think it lasts almost eight minutes. Those scenes are extremely difficult to perform because you cannot fake them emotionally. You have to stay completely exposed and truthful the entire time.

Pina demanded enormous honesty from us. She could immediately see when something was artificial. That was frightening sometimes, but also liberating, because once you stopped protecting yourself, something real could happen on stage.

Those scenes took everything from me emotionally and physically, but… I did it. And I think Pina knew I could.

At the time, we did not know Kontakthof would become such an important piece. We were simply living it.

While working on Kontakthof Echoes, what did you decide to cut, keep, or elaborate in a new way?

This was mainly Meryl’s responsibility. During the first week of rehearsals, when Meryl and I were alone in the Lichtburg, I shared my thoughts on which sequences might eventually be cut and which sections could be too physically demanding for us at this stage of our lives. However, I have little knowledge of filmmaking and what can or cannot be achieved through editing. In the end, Meryl made an outstanding selection from Rolf Borzik’s black-and-white footage and shaped it into something deeply moving.

Did you discover anything new about love, human relationships, violence, or other themes explored in the original work when you reworked “Kontakthof” at your current age?

Revisiting Kontakthof at my current age made me more aware of the colleagues we have lost and of how dear they were — and still are — to me.

Although we are now 48 years older, the essence of the piece is still there — engraved in our bodies and spirits. We are the original artists and authors of ourselves in what we are doing on stage. The experiences of a lifetime have changed us, but they have also deepened our relationship to the work.

The nine colleagues who are still dancing in the piece have strong personalities, fascinating life stories, and, for the most part, have not lost a single bit of their humour. As a result, the underlying humour in the work may be even richer and funnier than it was before.

We have developed a deep respect for one another over the years. Through this process, I also rediscovered something about myself. I realized that I can be proud of who I am today. My love for Pina and for this piece is stronger than ever.

Without love, I would be lost in this world.

At the same time, I have realized that youth somehow remains present as long as there is joy in what you are doing. Yet, realistically, death is getting closer; it is just around the corner.

What do you think is the most important part of Pina’s legacy for dance today to pass on to the next generation?

Pina’s work is meaningful and universal. I want to teach it and share it with others for as long as I can. For me, the work is not just about attention — it is about care. It is about caring for the work, for each other, and for keeping Pina’s legacy alive. It is about transmission: the passing on of knowledge, trust, and something more subtle than technique. Something that cannot simply be taught but must be experienced. Something that lives in the body, and in the silence between things.

The most important part of Pina’s legacy is to give back what we were given, and to ensure that this knowledge, generosity, and humanity continue to live through the next generation.

Pina’s legacy extends far beyond dance.

Did you have other projects with the Pina Bausch Foundation or with the Company?

Yes. I have actually never stopped re-staging Pina’s works since she passed away. The pieces I have taught most often are the repertoire works: Kontakthof, Sacre, and Orpheus. These works are deeply embedded in my body. Unforgettable. They have stayed with me and feel almost glued to my skin.

I work as a guest rehearsal director both for Tanztheater Wuppertal — on productions such as Arien, Macbeth, Kontakthof, and The Seven Deadly Sins — and for the Pina Bausch Foundation. This work has taken me to many different countries around the world, where I continue to share and transmit these works to new generations of artists.

You have worked on every version of “Kontakthof” — with the company, with people over 65, and with young people. You are dancing it again in “Kontakthof – Echoes of ‘78”. What do you think gives this piece its tremendous potential for rebirth with such different groups of people?

Kontakthof is an immortal work. It remains a perennial favourite. There is something unbreakable about it. The piece explores tenderness, desire, power, and vulnerability. Whether it is danced by professionals or amateurs, by young people or older generations, it never loses its strength or its intention. Most recently, I taught a new version to Greek actors aged between 23 and 55 at the National Theatre in Athens, and once again I was reminded of how deeply the work resonates with different people.

Audiences cherish Kontakthof in every version. In Kontakthof, you bring your own personality to the stage rather than dancing simply for the sake of dancing. The work asks for who you are, not just what you can do. For me, Kontakthof is a work that refuses to release me.

Next November, “The Rite of Spring” will be staged with the Ballet Company of Teatro alla Scala. For the dancers, it will be a turning point. You recently staged the piece also with African dancers, and you were one of the most touching Chosen Ones with Pina. Think about the final dance for a moment as if you were dancing it: why do you think that dance evokes such indelible sensations in the bodies of both the audience and the performer?

Thank you for the compliment. And I am very much looking forward to teaching Sacre at La Scala. The recently staged Sacre with African dancers was one of my most unforgettable, rewarding adventures.

That Chosen One solo is the solo of all solos. It is merciless. It is not a dance. It is not about technique. It is about conviction. About fear. About weight. About truth. About death. It is an event. An happening. Dance can be so real.

Pina once said to me: “Plant your feet deeper into the earth, Jo. Only then will you master your death.” I have never forgotten those words. I think that is why the final dance leaves such an indelible mark on both the performer and the audience. It confronts something we all recognize. When it is danced truthfully, it goes beyond performance. It becomes something deeply human.

photo credits from the top: “Kontakthof – Echoes of ’78” ©Uwe Stratmann (1, 2); ©Ursula Kaufmann (3, 5); ©Oliver Lock (4) Pina Bausch Foundation; “The Rite of Spring” with African dancers ©Maarte Vanden Abeele (6)